I had the opportunity to catch up with Allen Buckner from the HP MediaSmart team yesterday, regarding progress on the data corruption bug. He told me that HP share Microsoft’s point of view that the bug has only hit a very small percentage of their customers, although reiterating that whilst it’s an obscure bug, it does have the potential to bite you if you don’t follow Microsoft’s published advice.
Understandably, when Microsoft released the Knowledge Base article outlining the issue, HP did receive an increase in calls from customers confused about the problem, and I’m sure a little bit scared of the issue, but the number of cases of people who have experienced data corruption is very low - this is good news.
Going forward, HP have offered Microsoft additional resources to help test the bug fix as soon as it’s available for testing - it’s important to really kick the wheels of the fix to ensure it doesn’t break anything else within WHS, and does truly fix the bug once and for all. Understandably, they’re eager for the fix to be released as soon as possible, but not before everyone’s sure it works. Here’s a statement HP are releasing today about the issue:
HP has been in close communication with Microsoft on the Windows Home Server data corruption issue. There are two points to remember: we are only aware of a small percentage of customers with confirmed instances of the issue, and it occurs only when utilizing certain programs on Home Server systems with more than one hard drive. We understand disappointment with the estimated June delivery of a fix. But we also understand the challenges MS faces in reproducing bugs that occur so infrequently, the complexity of finding the right solution, and the need to complete extensive testing to ensure the bug fix is done correctly. HP is working with MS and is providing engineering and test resources to expedite this fix. With all the complexities of various operating systems, numerous applications, the variety of networking components, and the layers of software on top of Drive Extender, the testing will, in our experience, take some time to complete. Until that time, HP recommends that all HP MediaSmart Server owners follow Microsoft’s recommendations to ensure their data remains safe. More information can be found on Microsoft’s web site:
In other news, the HP “February” update is still in plan to be released some time in April, and will bring McAfee Anti-Virus protection, media serving from PacketVideo as well as x64 compatibility for all of the HP add-ins provided by the HP MediaSmart Server - yes, this means that certain add-ins will support x64 before the WHS Connector does, but that will be rectified with the release of PP1 later in the year.
Allen’s also part of the team who will be fielding your Q&A’s next week, so they’re looking forward to hearing your questions - keep an eye out for the interview in the next two weeks.
March 28th, 2008 at 10:41 pm
At least some good news. The two major problems I currently have with my MHS (both with WHS generally) are the corruption bug and the lack of support for most media formats. At least the second one will get resolved before summer.
March 28th, 2008 at 11:09 pm
At this stage, any news n the data corruption bu is welcome, so thanks for the aritcle. I find it a little distturbing that the reports keep downplaying the issue as only affecting a very small percentage of users. I know for a fact that the people who’s precious data have been affected by the bug don’t see it as an relatively insignificant flaw.
In my opinion this bug undermines the trustworthyness of WHS as a safe storage solution for data, which will put off prospective customers because they are not going to buy a product which might destroy their data instead of keeping it safe.
This monday, Microsoft organizes the launch event for WHS in The Netherlands for resellers and end users and I am very keen to see what impact this bug has on the reception of WHS.
March 29th, 2008 at 4:39 pm
I think MS are deluding themselves if they really believe that this bug only affects a small number of users. Having said that, how can we really know without doing an objective survey of all or a large sample of users. My WHS is generally under light load and I try to make sure that I only edit files to the shares when nothing else is going on (although balancing of the 3 HDDs is going on in the background) yet I lose 1-2 Excel files a week to corruption. Daily syncing using SyncToy (not 2.0 Beta) has generally ensured that a backup copy is available when this happens. Clearly, while this bug remains unfixed, WHS is unable to fulfil its primary function, ie to serve files reliably to any client computer connected to the network at any time and thus can be regarded only as a glorified network-attached backup device.
March 29th, 2008 at 4:42 pm
Well, Miles, both HP and Microsoft know this *could* affect all users with multiple drives, but the number of users that *have* reported data corruption to them is very low indeed. Have you reported your problem to MS?
March 29th, 2008 at 5:01 pm
Hi Terry.
No, I haven’t reported this to Microsoft because the last time I tried to submit feedback (regarding the failure of offline folders to work properly with WHS) I received no acknowledgement. If you think it would be worth doing, how do I set about it?
Thanks.
March 29th, 2008 at 5:35 pm
Hi Miles
This goes for everyone who feels they’re hitting the DE bug:
Send an email to whsforum@microsoft.com - if you don’t hear back from them in a few days, let me know and I’ll hook you up directly with someone.
Cheers
Terry
March 29th, 2008 at 5:38 pm
Have to comment on the lame attitude of both HP & MS. Put it this way: what if the FDA said about a new drug test, “We are only aware of a small percentage of customers with confirmed…deaths.” Moreover, what percentage of home users actually ever have to restore or otherwise call on a second computer’s stored backup file, and would also know the indications they have a corrupted file, AND would report it? Maybe a generous 5%? Let’s call a halt to this corporate disingenuousness.
We are talking “Home Server”. This implies a comprehensive responsibility, most especially to a large class of non-technical users whom Microsoft has consistently failed throughout its history. For example, there should be no more “Check with your systems administrator…” error messages, as the answer to any problem above a reboot. On my WHS installation, I’m getting a request for “CTRL-ALT-DEL” to then allow the required, heavy-duty password to be entered, all preceding WHS operating system’s startup. This is probably necessary for the maximum security isolation MS innately requires, but isn’t WHS widely advertised as a unit you stick in your closet with no monitor or keyboard. Huh…exactly how do I see and respond to a three-button & password requirement in my dark, monitorless closet location…without a keyboard? I’m sure there’s an answer…but I’m tired of tracking down daily glitches for the world’s richest man (plus or minus).
I expressed myself in this vein on the MS WHS Forum, as here, and was promptly ostracized from any written access, apparently by IP; as it is so comprehensive. Not a government to mess with, as my Russian wife warns me. MS does not like critics. MS does not like to admit mistakes (note how many times frank WHS issues have been up for a day on MS “Team blogs”, then suddenly yanked down), nor does it like to be publicly informed of them. That’s OK, I’ll get my numerous WHS bugs answered elsewhere. [Here is an excellent place. Intelligently composed English, so refreshing!] I also write occasionally for the New York Times, once on the Times Op-Ed page…with devastating consequences for the local government agency miscreant…so perhaps that’s a better forum for my grievances.
Why does Microsoft own such a profuse reputation for inattention to details and inept user interfacing? One possible reason is that every MS “Team” member is employee evaluated by all others, so with such an intensely competitive red flag peer review system, you may only be as good for your valued stock options as your team members feel your failures deserve. Remember the dreaded, highly effective KGB, East German family member reporting system? Not nice!
There are top down reasons, too; Bill Gates is a brilliant businessman, not as brilliant as he claims for himself, but MS is financially amazing; happy stockholders, for sure. And I absolutely commend his present commitment to humanity’s state of being. But when it comes to the things that Apple’s dark horse success underlines, i.e., genius-inspired design, as opposed to large-team, all-night, amateur idea sessions, software interface by engineer logic (which is an equally vital component, but not the bottom line), and software inspiration purchased or focus group constructed, you can then understand Microsoft’s dismal failings. Major user frustration is the result. And they don’t want to take responsibility, i.e., please don’t sell it until it works perfectly for its intended users.
The Newton, by the way, originated (as far as I know) the idea of a non-redundant data pool…it didn’t use it for back up, but WHS is nothing new….and vitally flawed. For this there is no excuse, none. Their R&D budget, let alone conventional product development, is higher than the GDP of over 50% of the world’s countries!
Douglas Hopkins
DouglasHopkins(at)gmail.com
March 29th, 2008 at 5:49 pm
Hi Douglas,
Unfortunately, with this issue, we discovered that Windows Home Server was indeed the latest in a long line of flawed V1 Microsoft products - a giant fly in the ointment of what is otherwise a pretty fabulous piece of software. Well positioned, and, giant bug aside well executed. It will be fixed however, and hopefully, when it is fixed, we can all move on and Microsoft and their partners can start the journey to restore the community’s faith in Windows Home Server, and the product team building it.
Whilst I can’t comment on your problems over at the MS Forums, do feel free to stop by WGS from time to time and share your views - it’s why we’re here, and it’s always great for people to hear voices other than my own!
Best wishes
Terry
March 29th, 2008 at 6:29 pm
Terry,
Thanks for your reply and warm welcome. I suspect you are a Brit; articulate, so lacking on the internet and (while we are on the subject) within MS products.
I do take issue with “V1″. True, it is a designation for known product poverty, but should never be allowed as an excuse, especially after 20+ years of operating system concoction. Here, as you know, WHS is perched on Server 2003. This is not Microsoft’s first try at “Serving”.
Nor, with all due respect, would I go as far as to say “fabulous” (despite 20 years as a New York fashion photographer), bugs notwithstanding. The iPhone is fabulous: good looks and good functions; needs more, but a great debut on the well-dressed runway.
WHS introduces an excellent backup technique, combining non-redundant data storage, “hot” HDD drive participation [supposedly...I don't dare test it!], and volunteer programming, I believe called “widgets”. None of this is new and the interface is downright shabby. Consider one Apple Airbook feature, “self-replicating access” — as I call it — the ability to reach out and grab any nearby wireless source for its own optical disk. That is slick! Meanwhile I can’t even get Windows Home Server to reach out and allow me to store a single file in the “Public” directory from another LAN computer, let alone give me a chance to corrupt it!
Keep up the good work. Keep that door wide open to the critics! I’m counting on MS Team members reading your blog, even if they are muzzled.
And while I have you on the line, please think of adding download numbers and user evaluations to the Add-In software list. Want to have a few clues as to how useful and how buggy each may be before burdening myself with another layer of weekend work!
Regards,
Douglas
March 29th, 2008 at 7:44 pm
Hi Douglas,
Many thanks for your reply.
Yes, I am British - from Liverpool originally, now living about 40 miles outside of London.
You’re right that this isn’t Microsoft’s first attempt at “serving”, but it is their first attempt at “home serving”, and their attempt to create an accessible server product to work in the home, hiding all the complexity and configurability of Windows Server 2003 is brave, and the innovation inherent in Windows Home Server really should be applauded. That bravery alone inspired this blog and in my most frustrated times with WHS and Microsoft (and there’s been a few behind the scenes here at WGS) it’s the benefits that a well delivered home server product can bring to us all that keeps me writing, and I’m sure keeps an active community vibrant here and elsewhere.
Do remember there are examples of game changing innovation in Windows Home Server - Drive Extender, whilst unforunately the cause of the current issue, is a huge leap - offering software driven file replication across multiple drives, fantastic backup facilities as you mention, and the negation of drive letters in favour of a central storage pool. There’s so much behind the scenes that “just works”, which we don’t celebrate. The interface isn’t beautiful, admittedly - one area of focus should be usability in the next version of the product. I’d love to see a Media Center-style UI provided as a layer on top of the platform to make things feel much slicker and simpler.
Windows Home Server isn’t perfect, by any stretch of the imagination, but bug aside, is a fantastic start to the home server category - but it must get better, and the only way it will do is customers and community members keeping both Microsoft and their partners honest in a strong blend of challenge and support - that’s certainly what we’re trying to achieve as Windows Home Server MVPs, and we’re all helped by people like you sharing your opinion. I care very little how much Bill Gates earns or Microsoft’s share price - I just want a home server product that rocks, as I’m sure do you.
The blog is widely read by many in the industry, so I’m sure your message is hitting home. Feel free to continue posting here on the blog, or on our forums, which, to answer your final point, will be your best bet in understanding the successes and failures of each add-in. Every add-in has a dedicated forum, along with a community rating poll, so you should be able to see quickly whether an add-in is worth its salt.
Best wishes
Terry
March 30th, 2008 at 3:52 am
I would like to mention that outside of editing file directly on my server, everything is dandy and I have experienced the restore function from bear bone metal to a restored fully functional PC because of the Windows Home Server. I am not happy about how that file corruption started in the wild after the Beta phase but I am still happy about that you could buy all your hardware built it the way you want and get the Windows Home Server on top of it.
I am very satisfy of Home Server and this is truly a great product for me, I am like anyone here anxious to see that bug disappear but are you not tired of that mystical aura of Apple that don’t even sell their OS to the public without their “PC”. At least with MS blood sucker like some here call them I don’t have to buy and HP Media Server if I don’t want to that is freedom and people from the former USSR must see my point there as I could compare MS to Linux minus the “fee” and you could compare Apple to the old “IBM” monolithic or the old USSR or CCCP
Common all is not that bad in the Royaume of MS
March 30th, 2008 at 5:55 am
Sorry guys, but most of you are WAY to easy on Microsoft. First of all, Microsoft is NOT a well run company. Anybody that follows Microsoft stock (or worse, invested in it) knows, that it has done virtually NOTHING. If you invested in 1998 10000, you would still have the same amount of money today (10 years later), with dividends being paid ONLY since 2003. If you invested $10000 in 2008, today you could show a loss of almost 5000 big once. So … here goes the myth of financial brilliance of folks from Redmond. Sure, they DO have lots of cash, but it is used very poorly (mostly to pay off individual local governments for anti-competitive practices).
As far as WHS is concerned. I WAS very excited about it, I got even more excited when I bought my EX475 box. All of us, who bought into the massive marketing campaign of Microsoft believed, that we could be able to have a stable, reliable platform for centralized backups and file sharing.
Well, today we are being told that:
1. Backups are being performed, but …. without protection of a multiple drive redundancy (even after we decided to spend money on them).
2. We can’t rely on data protection for shared files stored on WHS (one of the 1 top selling features for the product), because these files can be reliably corrupted by the top 10 user applications (Quicken, Excel, Outlook, …)
3. We are told, that the corruption is NOT a problem for Microsoft and HP, because THEY believe, that the problem affects only “few” users. It reminds me the time, when Bill Clinton tried to redefine what ‘is’ is. Maybe for MS “few” means “few” hundred thousand or maybe a million or so users. Who knows…
Yea, I am sure that the SP2 or SP5 will have a solution for most of the bugs and lacking features, but in a meantime I cannot comprehend, that for companies like Microsoft and HP, data corruption is a minor blimp, and not a major problem. I can only see how this kind of attitude makes a lot of EU bureaucratic machine happy. They ARE ready to sue again to plug in their budget deficit with MY money.
I think, that one would be better of by buying products like DROBO, which basically, can do the same thing (with some 3rd party backup software), but reliably. I am really disappointed.
March 30th, 2008 at 5:57 am
Oops … one correction: Instead of “If you invested $10000 in 2008 …” , it should read “If you invested $10000 in 2000…”
March 31st, 2008 at 1:12 am
Honestly this is such rubbish. I can reproduce this issue on less than 5 minutes just by moving my Thunderbird mail store to a share on my WHS. I was one of the early reportes of this issue on MS Connect and have heard bupkis from anyone since MS asked me to submit the details of how to recreate it, along with log files clearly showing the error happening and actual samples, showing the precise nature of the corruption. All this spin is beginning to really tork me off.
April 25th, 2008 at 11:40 pm
Given there’s only a few days left in April, I take it that this has been delayed yet again?